[community] Fwd: AODA standard for Social Assistance?

[Lucian Timofte]

Personally, I cannot access enough data or facts to suspect everyone in the
system as ableist.

On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 10:04 AM Cybele S <cybele.sack at gmail.com> wrote:

> Structural ableism.  Systemic ableism.
>
> What is the limit of conscious ableism?  Are we defining individual intent
> now?  Whose?  It's not necessary but it's certainly provable to show
> historic bias that underpins the creation and maintenance of these systems.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 9:45 AM Lucian Timofte <luciantimofte at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I agree the picture is larger. However, I am not sure if it is about
>> conscious ableism.
>> To me, lack of participatory design, funding issues, poor management and
>> communication are facts.
>> Before digital inclusion with ODSP, PwDs still do pirouettes to navigate
>> financial problems, underfunding their housing/renting, nutrition,
>> assistive devices and medical needs.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Lucian
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Cybele S <cybele.sack at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course those should not be lost.
>>>
>>> What is the big picture on this?
>>>
>>> Layers of denials of claims, filtering people out first by type of
>>> disability, then by system literacy and access to supports, then by
>>> technological barriers which amplify bias towards exclusion and towards a
>>> belief that people are cheating the system.
>>>
>>> If we do tech fixes without addressing the bigger picture, we could
>>> whitewash these exclusions as “accessibility” when real accessibility
>>> addresses ableism.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 11:50 AM arc23 <arcohoon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Great with that, just as long as the technology problems and
>>> communication
>>> > discussions are not lost thank you
>>> > written using voice to text excuse any mistakes 416-710-0817
>>> >
>>> > On Wed., Jul. 7, 2021, 11:02 a.m. Cybele S, <cybele.sack at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Before we get too granular, can this discussion also include
>>> definitions
>>> >> of who qualifies and when?
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 10:59 AM Fran Quintero Rawlings <
>>> >> rawlings.fran at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Hey this is a fascinating and important topic.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Firstly because of how many barriers there are to filling out these
>>> >>> forms. The requirements for someone that is disabled, low income or a
>>> >>> senior needing any type of assistance is ridiculous.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Secondly current AODA standards are still missing the mark - they
>>> don’t
>>> >>> account for neurodiversity needs and perhaps other inclusive need.
>>> On top
>>> >>> of being cumbersome, they are confusing and overwhelming to fill out.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The elephant in the room around all of this is the lack of dignity
>>> >>> considered in the design of these services. They are not co-designed
>>> with
>>> >>> people that actually use the services (or the existing design of the
>>> AODA
>>> >>> standard.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I would be interested in discussing this more.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Cheers
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Fran
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > On Jul 7, 2021, at 09:52, arc23 <arcohoon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> >>> > From: arc23 <arcohoon at gmail.com>
>>> >>> > Date: Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 9:40 AM
>>> >>> > Subject: Re: [community] AODA standard for Social Assistance?
>>> >>> > To: Brian Moore <bmoore at screenreview.org>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I am using both windows 10 and the latest version of Android and
>>> then
>>> >>> both
>>> >>> > those cases if there is a way to fill a PDF without paying for the
>>> >>> premium
>>> >>> > the user interface way finding does not make it easy so I don't
>>> know if
>>> >>> > there is a way I didn't fill out the form without signing up for a
>>> >>> monthly
>>> >>> > membership because I used up my free trial a few years ago
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I bet it's a government security thing but the fact is it's going
>>> to
>>> >>> nickel
>>> >>> > and dine as low income users they say you can get a word document
>>> but I
>>> >>> > think you have to talk to somebody first and if you can't get a
>>> hold of
>>> >>> > anybody then you're still stuck
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > written using voice to text excuse any mistakes 416-710-0817
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> On Wed., Jul. 7, 2021, 7:47 a.m. Brian Moore, <
>>> >>> bmoore at screenreview.org>
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> really! Are you using a mac?  Adobe reader the free version
>>> should be
>>> >>> able
>>> >>> >> to fill out pdf forms although most of them really suck for
>>> >>> accessibility?
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> I am not sure the mac version does though.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Yeah, I have heard that calling them is a shit show and you can
>>> never
>>> >>> get
>>> >>> >> a hold of anyone. Clearly that hasn't changed since I was on it.
>>> you
>>> >>> could
>>> >>> >> leave voice mails and never get a call back!
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Contact me on skype: brian.moore
>>> >>> >> follow me on twitter:http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On 2021-07-06 5:28 p.m., arc23 wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> They have definitely made in roads in making ODSP more digital
>>> >>> accessible
>>> >>> >> for users during the pandemic with my benefits website my only
>>> >>> concern as
>>> >>> >> an ODSP recipient is the digital forms are all in PDFs that need
>>> the
>>> >>> >> premium version of acrobat to fill electronically I cannot use my
>>> >>> wordq to
>>> >>> >> fill out the digital PDF forms. Can I claim Adobe Acrobat as an
>>> ODSP
>>> >>> >> expense that's the only way I can pay over $10 a month to be able
>>> to
>>> >>> >> properly fill out ODSP forms online
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> And also doesn't seem like they want clients to get a hold of them
>>> >>> easily
>>> >>> >> because I constantly had workers that just disappeared and when I
>>> >>> call in
>>> >>> >> they tell me all your worker quit months ago and they do nothing
>>> to
>>> >>> >> actually let you know that on their voicemail you just get a
>>> >>> voicemail box
>>> >>> >> that's full of messages
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> They should definitely look into inclusive design principles and
>>> >>> better
>>> >>> >> customer service principals for for us clients do actually use the
>>> >>> service
>>> >>> >> and do it more efficiently
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> But usually when I do send them a document through the my benefits
>>> >>> website
>>> >>> >> I usually do get a response in about a week but it's getting to
>>> talk
>>> >>> to an
>>> >>> >> actual person on the phone that is still a problem
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> written using voice to text excuse any mistakes 416-710-0817
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Mon., Jul. 5, 2021, 5:12 p.m. Brian Moore, <
>>> >>> bmoore at screenreview.org>
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> Hi.  If nothing else, I think all those programs communications
>>> with
>>> >>> >>> consumers are still in print.  I think even the monthly reporting
>>> >>> forms
>>> >>> >>> are still print. I heard some talk of online forms for reporting
>>> >>> monthly
>>> >>> >>> income and there was some talk of developing this when I was
>>> doing
>>> >>> >>> contract work at MGCS but not sure if anything ever came of
>>> that.  I
>>> >>> >>> know they have an online application package now but can't
>>> comment on
>>> >>> >>> its accessibility as I haven't tried although I did hear some
>>> people
>>> >>> had
>>> >>> >>> trouble.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Would be interested what anyone knows about this.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Brian.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Contact me on skype: brian.moore
>>> >>> >>> follow me on twitter:
>>> >>> >>> http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> On 2021-07-05 4:11 p.m., John W (personal) wrote:
>>> >>> >>>> Hello Inclusive Design Community (aka My External Brain)
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> I think a number of  folks here -- including Pina and Jutta and
>>> >>> David L
>>> >>> >>> but
>>> >>> >>>> maybe others? -- have deep expertise in AODA Standards
>>> development.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> Question: Has there ever been a discussion with the Provincial
>>> gov
>>> >>> >>> (either
>>> >>> >>>> the current Ministry or the former ADO) about developing a
>>> Standard
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> >>>> social assistance? Since OW an dODSP are heavily targeted at
>>> persons
>>> >>> >>> with
>>> >>> >>>> disabilities, some of us are interested if this idea has ever
>>> >>> surfaced
>>> >>> >>> and
>>> >>> >>>> if so, what was the upshot?
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> If it has NOT come up, does anyone here want to make a case for
>>> or
>>> >>> >>> against
>>> >>> >>>> having an AODA Standard for social assistance? Since services
>>> under
>>> >>> OW
>>> >>> >>> and
>>> >>> >>>> ODSP are by eligibility only (not universal per se) this would
>>> >>> >>> presumably
>>> >>> >>>> be a narrower Standard than others, but at the same time it is
>>> >>> >>> interesting
>>> >>> >>>> to consider how a third-party standards-development process
>>> might
>>> >>> serve
>>> >>> >>> the
>>> >>> >>>> people who need social assistance in terms of accessibility.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> thanks, all thoughts welcome
>>> >>> >>>> j
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>> ________________________________________
>>> >>> >>> Inclusive Design Community (community at lists.idrc.ocadu.ca)
>>> >>> >>> Click here to unsubscribe:
>>> >>> >>> https://lists.idrc.ocadu.ca/mailman/listinfo/community
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > --
>>> >>> > _______________________
>>> >>> > Adam Roy Cohoon [name]
>>> >>> > @ARC23
>>> >>> > ARTIST/ACCESS advocate / Tech Tester
>>> >>> > cell. 416-710-0817
>>> >>> > www.youtube.com/ARC23
>>> >>> > skype: arcohoon
>>> >>> > arcohoon at gmail.com
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > this may have been composed with experimental speech and word
>>> >>> prediction
>>> >>> > software, please, feel free to contact me for clarification if
>>> unclear
>>> >>> or
>>> >>> > always glad to talk via voice
>>> >>> > ________________________________________
>>> >>> > Inclusive Design Community (community at lists.idrc.ocadu.ca)
>>> >>> > Click here to unsubscribe:
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>>> >>> ________________________________________
>>> >>> Inclusive Design Community (community at lists.idrc.ocadu.ca)
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>>> >>>
>>> >>
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>>