[community] Fwd: AODA standard for Social Assistance?

Cybele S cybele.sack at gmail.com
Thu Jul 8 14:03:23 UTC 2021


Structural ableism.  Systemic ableism.

What is the limit of conscious ableism?  Are we defining individual intent
now?  Whose?  It's not necessary but it's certainly provable to show
historic bias that underpins the creation and maintenance of these systems.



On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 9:45 AM Lucian Timofte <luciantimofte at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I agree the picture is larger. However, I am not sure if it is about
> conscious ableism.
> To me, lack of participatory design, funding issues, poor management and
> communication are facts.
> Before digital inclusion with ODSP, PwDs still do pirouettes to navigate
> financial problems, underfunding their housing/renting, nutrition,
> assistive devices and medical needs.
>
> Sincerely,
> Lucian
>
> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Cybele S <cybele.sack at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Of course those should not be lost.
>>
>> What is the big picture on this?
>>
>> Layers of denials of claims, filtering people out first by type of
>> disability, then by system literacy and access to supports, then by
>> technological barriers which amplify bias towards exclusion and towards a
>> belief that people are cheating the system.
>>
>> If we do tech fixes without addressing the bigger picture, we could
>> whitewash these exclusions as “accessibility” when real accessibility
>> addresses ableism.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 11:50 AM arc23 <arcohoon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Great with that, just as long as the technology problems and
>> communication
>> > discussions are not lost thank you
>> > written using voice to text excuse any mistakes 416-710-0817
>> >
>> > On Wed., Jul. 7, 2021, 11:02 a.m. Cybele S, <cybele.sack at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Before we get too granular, can this discussion also include
>> definitions
>> >> of who qualifies and when?
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 10:59 AM Fran Quintero Rawlings <
>> >> rawlings.fran at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hey this is a fascinating and important topic.
>> >>>
>> >>> Firstly because of how many barriers there are to filling out these
>> >>> forms. The requirements for someone that is disabled, low income or a
>> >>> senior needing any type of assistance is ridiculous.
>> >>>
>> >>> Secondly current AODA standards are still missing the mark - they
>> don’t
>> >>> account for neurodiversity needs and perhaps other inclusive need. On
>> top
>> >>> of being cumbersome, they are confusing and overwhelming to fill out.
>> >>>
>> >>> The elephant in the room around all of this is the lack of dignity
>> >>> considered in the design of these services. They are not co-designed
>> with
>> >>> people that actually use the services (or the existing design of the
>> AODA
>> >>> standard.
>> >>>
>> >>> I would be interested in discussing this more.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers
>> >>>
>> >>> Fran
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > On Jul 7, 2021, at 09:52, arc23 <arcohoon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> >>> > From: arc23 <arcohoon at gmail.com>
>> >>> > Date: Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 9:40 AM
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [community] AODA standard for Social Assistance?
>> >>> > To: Brian Moore <bmoore at screenreview.org>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I am using both windows 10 and the latest version of Android and
>> then
>> >>> both
>> >>> > those cases if there is a way to fill a PDF without paying for the
>> >>> premium
>> >>> > the user interface way finding does not make it easy so I don't
>> know if
>> >>> > there is a way I didn't fill out the form without signing up for a
>> >>> monthly
>> >>> > membership because I used up my free trial a few years ago
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I bet it's a government security thing but the fact is it's going to
>> >>> nickel
>> >>> > and dine as low income users they say you can get a word document
>> but I
>> >>> > think you have to talk to somebody first and if you can't get a
>> hold of
>> >>> > anybody then you're still stuck
>> >>> >
>> >>> > written using voice to text excuse any mistakes 416-710-0817
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> On Wed., Jul. 7, 2021, 7:47 a.m. Brian Moore, <
>> >>> bmoore at screenreview.org>
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> really! Are you using a mac?  Adobe reader the free version should
>> be
>> >>> able
>> >>> >> to fill out pdf forms although most of them really suck for
>> >>> accessibility?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I am not sure the mac version does though.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Yeah, I have heard that calling them is a shit show and you can
>> never
>> >>> get
>> >>> >> a hold of anyone. Clearly that hasn't changed since I was on it.
>> you
>> >>> could
>> >>> >> leave voice mails and never get a call back!
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Contact me on skype: brian.moore
>> >>> >> follow me on twitter:http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On 2021-07-06 5:28 p.m., arc23 wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> They have definitely made in roads in making ODSP more digital
>> >>> accessible
>> >>> >> for users during the pandemic with my benefits website my only
>> >>> concern as
>> >>> >> an ODSP recipient is the digital forms are all in PDFs that need
>> the
>> >>> >> premium version of acrobat to fill electronically I cannot use my
>> >>> wordq to
>> >>> >> fill out the digital PDF forms. Can I claim Adobe Acrobat as an
>> ODSP
>> >>> >> expense that's the only way I can pay over $10 a month to be able
>> to
>> >>> >> properly fill out ODSP forms online
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> And also doesn't seem like they want clients to get a hold of them
>> >>> easily
>> >>> >> because I constantly had workers that just disappeared and when I
>> >>> call in
>> >>> >> they tell me all your worker quit months ago and they do nothing to
>> >>> >> actually let you know that on their voicemail you just get a
>> >>> voicemail box
>> >>> >> that's full of messages
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> They should definitely look into inclusive design principles and
>> >>> better
>> >>> >> customer service principals for for us clients do actually use the
>> >>> service
>> >>> >> and do it more efficiently
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> But usually when I do send them a document through the my benefits
>> >>> website
>> >>> >> I usually do get a response in about a week but it's getting to
>> talk
>> >>> to an
>> >>> >> actual person on the phone that is still a problem
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> written using voice to text excuse any mistakes 416-710-0817
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Mon., Jul. 5, 2021, 5:12 p.m. Brian Moore, <
>> >>> bmoore at screenreview.org>
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> Hi.  If nothing else, I think all those programs communications
>> with
>> >>> >>> consumers are still in print.  I think even the monthly reporting
>> >>> forms
>> >>> >>> are still print. I heard some talk of online forms for reporting
>> >>> monthly
>> >>> >>> income and there was some talk of developing this when I was doing
>> >>> >>> contract work at MGCS but not sure if anything ever came of
>> that.  I
>> >>> >>> know they have an online application package now but can't
>> comment on
>> >>> >>> its accessibility as I haven't tried although I did hear some
>> people
>> >>> had
>> >>> >>> trouble.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Would be interested what anyone knows about this.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Brian.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Contact me on skype: brian.moore
>> >>> >>> follow me on twitter:
>> >>> >>> http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> On 2021-07-05 4:11 p.m., John W (personal) wrote:
>> >>> >>>> Hello Inclusive Design Community (aka My External Brain)
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> I think a number of  folks here -- including Pina and Jutta and
>> >>> David L
>> >>> >>> but
>> >>> >>>> maybe others? -- have deep expertise in AODA Standards
>> development.
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> Question: Has there ever been a discussion with the Provincial
>> gov
>> >>> >>> (either
>> >>> >>>> the current Ministry or the former ADO) about developing a
>> Standard
>> >>> for
>> >>> >>>> social assistance? Since OW an dODSP are heavily targeted at
>> persons
>> >>> >>> with
>> >>> >>>> disabilities, some of us are interested if this idea has ever
>> >>> surfaced
>> >>> >>> and
>> >>> >>>> if so, what was the upshot?
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> If it has NOT come up, does anyone here want to make a case for
>> or
>> >>> >>> against
>> >>> >>>> having an AODA Standard for social assistance? Since services
>> under
>> >>> OW
>> >>> >>> and
>> >>> >>>> ODSP are by eligibility only (not universal per se) this would
>> >>> >>> presumably
>> >>> >>>> be a narrower Standard than others, but at the same time it is
>> >>> >>> interesting
>> >>> >>>> to consider how a third-party standards-development process might
>> >>> serve
>> >>> >>> the
>> >>> >>>> people who need social assistance in terms of accessibility.
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> thanks, all thoughts welcome
>> >>> >>>> j
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>> ________________________________________
>> >>> >>> Inclusive Design Community (community at lists.idrc.ocadu.ca)
>> >>> >>> Click here to unsubscribe:
>> >>> >>> https://lists.idrc.ocadu.ca/mailman/listinfo/community
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >>> > _______________________
>> >>> > Adam Roy Cohoon [name]
>> >>> > @ARC23
>> >>> > ARTIST/ACCESS advocate / Tech Tester
>> >>> > cell. 416-710-0817
>> >>> > www.youtube.com/ARC23
>> >>> > skype: arcohoon
>> >>> > arcohoon at gmail.com
>> >>> >
>> >>> > this may have been composed with experimental speech and word
>> >>> prediction
>> >>> > software, please, feel free to contact me for clarification if
>> unclear
>> >>> or
>> >>> > always glad to talk via voice
>> >>> > ________________________________________
>> >>> > Inclusive Design Community (community at lists.idrc.ocadu.ca)
>> >>> > Click here to unsubscribe:
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>> >>> ________________________________________
>> >>> Inclusive Design Community (community at lists.idrc.ocadu.ca)
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>> >>>
>> >>
>> ________________________________________
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>



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